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	<title>Comments on: Gaming Freedom?</title>
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	<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/9306</link>
	<description>Embrace your Inner Penguin</description>
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		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/9306/comment-page-1#comment-235900</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-235900</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What hardware do you have that has open source drivers and plays those games so well?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What hardware do you have that has open source drivers and plays those games so well?</p>
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		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/9306/comment-page-1#comment-235343</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-235343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I bought hardware with open source drivers already available more than 3 years ago. No reverse engineering required and I&#039;ve found the performance completely acceptable. Doom 3/UT2004 runs fine!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bought hardware with open source drivers already available more than 3 years ago. No reverse engineering required and I&#8217;ve found the performance completely acceptable. Doom 3/UT2004 runs fine!</p>
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		<title>By: lemonade</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/9306/comment-page-1#comment-235335</link>
		<dc:creator>lemonade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-235335</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;None. I mean, if I switch to linux, it&#039;s not to have a crappy half working machine.&quot;

This is so true. I know that people don&#039;t want to switch to linux which only supports half of their hardware fully - it&#039;s like buying an expensive device and using only features of a cheaper one. But hey, if you&#039;re too much into proprietary world - why ever you need to use open sourced operating system?

&quot;If a video card manufacturer has sufficient manpower to create a working video driver, I don&#039;t see the point of duplicating the effort for the sake of Open Source. Be realistic, how many people have the sufficient knowledge to create a working drivers ? How many of them can create a optimized drivers ? How many of them can test it on a vast range of system ? How many of them can make them robust and more importantly trustfull ?
yes, not that much. So loosing time just for the sake of open source anything doesn&#039;t mean anything really.&quot;

There are lot&#039;s of people who can do testing - some can do coding - it&#039;s the whole idea of open source that many people can collaboratively make projects that could take thousands of working hours. But I&#039;m not sure that you&#039;ve quite understood what open source is about. The open source software is not good only for replacing the proprietory software - it really gives all power of hardware to user. Hardware manufacturer don&#039;t have interests in developing drivers for products which are too old - so you are left with device that isn&#039;t possibly supported at all. So you have to purchase a new device just to get support, although the old one would have been enough for your uses. If there would have been open source drivers life would have been easier. It&#039;s all about freedom to do what ever you want and not to be locked with some companies software or hardware.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;None. I mean, if I switch to linux, it&#8217;s not to have a crappy half working machine.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is so true. I know that people don&#8217;t want to switch to linux which only supports half of their hardware fully &#8211; it&#8217;s like buying an expensive device and using only features of a cheaper one. But hey, if you&#8217;re too much into proprietary world &#8211; why ever you need to use open sourced operating system?</p>
<p>&#8220;If a video card manufacturer has sufficient manpower to create a working video driver, I don&#8217;t see the point of duplicating the effort for the sake of Open Source. Be realistic, how many people have the sufficient knowledge to create a working drivers ? How many of them can create a optimized drivers ? How many of them can test it on a vast range of system ? How many of them can make them robust and more importantly trustfull ?<br />
yes, not that much. So loosing time just for the sake of open source anything doesn&#8217;t mean anything really.&#8221;</p>
<p>There are lot&#8217;s of people who can do testing &#8211; some can do coding &#8211; it&#8217;s the whole idea of open source that many people can collaboratively make projects that could take thousands of working hours. But I&#8217;m not sure that you&#8217;ve quite understood what open source is about. The open source software is not good only for replacing the proprietory software &#8211; it really gives all power of hardware to user. Hardware manufacturer don&#8217;t have interests in developing drivers for products which are too old &#8211; so you are left with device that isn&#8217;t possibly supported at all. So you have to purchase a new device just to get support, although the old one would have been enough for your uses. If there would have been open source drivers life would have been easier. It&#8217;s all about freedom to do what ever you want and not to be locked with some companies software or hardware.</p>
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		<title>By: glutinous</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/9306/comment-page-1#comment-235328</link>
		<dc:creator>glutinous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-235328</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If it is sufficient to do the job, then I would use the open source version. The demands of a desktop with all the 3D candy is much less than a game. So for that, I would be more than happy to use an open source driver that can drive that at a satisfactory level. As for games, again, if the open source ones were good enough for smooth gameplay, then I would use it. That might not be the case right now, but I am just basically saying: if it is &#039;fast enough&#039; then I will use it. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it is sufficient to do the job, then I would use the open source version. The demands of a desktop with all the 3D candy is much less than a game. So for that, I would be more than happy to use an open source driver that can drive that at a satisfactory level. As for games, again, if the open source ones were good enough for smooth gameplay, then I would use it. That might not be the case right now, but I am just basically saying: if it is &#8216;fast enough&#8217; then I will use it. </p>
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		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/9306/comment-page-1#comment-235054</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 02:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-235054</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The utah-glx project is not dead, it just merged with the DRI project.

And as for the performance hit question, I&#039;d accept perhaps around a 20% performance decrease.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The utah-glx project is not dead, it just merged with the DRI project.</p>
<p>And as for the performance hit question, I&#8217;d accept perhaps around a 20% performance decrease.</p>
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		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/9306/comment-page-1#comment-235019</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 01:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-235019</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[man this really is a tough question,, at the moment, my doom3,quake4, and even ut2004 performance suffers ~%15 and I&#039;m ok with that. I make certain sacrifices to support Linux because of the advantages.. bottom line is I think I&#039;d be willing to accept another %15 loss.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>man this really is a tough question,, at the moment, my doom3,quake4, and even ut2004 performance suffers ~%15 and I&#8217;m ok with that. I make certain sacrifices to support Linux because of the advantages.. bottom line is I think I&#8217;d be willing to accept another %15 loss.</p>
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		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/9306/comment-page-1#comment-234795</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-234795</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[hi there peeps,

   I might be flammed for this but at this juncture I dont care.  I have overall diminished respect for linux when I see geek&#039;s proclamation and verbal attacks that if you dont  use OSS your somehow a traitor or worse.  This mentality is a disease and its high time  it was stopped.  We all get the principle behind &#039;OSS&#039; , but come on its not realistic and I totally agree with djame.  There are amazing OSS apps like GImp, blender etal and  the dev work behind them is amazing,- but Let those that &#039;own&#039; the hardware and are paid to work on the drivers do it ( nvidia or even ati ) and stop wasting precious OSS dev time for the sake of the almighty ego. Is it not better to ask nvidia for support for said older hardware than bother wasting time RE&#039;ing things ? What is really to be gained by this OSS drive other than to say &#039;oh kewl man we have oss driver&#039; ? Are there literally reports on file somewhere showing horrible bugs that nvidia has not fixed ?

If your that   adament about using only OSS, then how about standing behind projects like:

http://wiki.opengraphics.org/tiki-index.php

cu
g.leej


]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi there peeps,</p>
<p>   I might be flammed for this but at this juncture I dont care.  I have overall diminished respect for linux when I see geek&#8217;s proclamation and verbal attacks that if you dont  use OSS your somehow a traitor or worse.  This mentality is a disease and its high time  it was stopped.  We all get the principle behind &#8216;OSS&#8217; , but come on its not realistic and I totally agree with djame.  There are amazing OSS apps like GImp, blender etal and  the dev work behind them is amazing,- but Let those that &#8216;own&#8217; the hardware and are paid to work on the drivers do it ( nvidia or even ati ) and stop wasting precious OSS dev time for the sake of the almighty ego. Is it not better to ask nvidia for support for said older hardware than bother wasting time RE&#8217;ing things ? What is really to be gained by this OSS drive other than to say &#8216;oh kewl man we have oss driver&#8217; ? Are there literally reports on file somewhere showing horrible bugs that nvidia has not fixed ?</p>
<p>If your that   adament about using only OSS, then how about standing behind projects like:</p>
<p><a href="http://wiki.opengraphics.org/tiki-index.php" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.opengraphics.org/tiki-index.php</a></p>
<p>cu<br />
g.leej</p>
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		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/9306/comment-page-1#comment-234655</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-234655</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If Microsoft already made Windows, why waste time working on Gnu/Linux? How many people know how to write an operating system, let alone the kernel?

Why write an open source 3D implementation of Total Annihilation when Warcraft 3 or Supreme Commander already exist? Why bother doing total conversion mods for Quake? How many people even know how to make a game?

I&#039;d rather have a free video driver that works well than a proprietary video driver that works well. Even if there were only a handful of people out there who would support it on their own, I&#039;d at least like the option of fixing it myself or paying someone else to fit it if something went wrong. Frankly, I&#039;m tired of having to mess with my computer every time I upgrade a kernel. If it wasn&#039;t for the proprietary drivers, I wouldn&#039;t get apprehensive about upgrading the kernel each time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Microsoft already made Windows, why waste time working on Gnu/Linux? How many people know how to write an operating system, let alone the kernel?</p>
<p>Why write an open source 3D implementation of Total Annihilation when Warcraft 3 or Supreme Commander already exist? Why bother doing total conversion mods for Quake? How many people even know how to make a game?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d rather have a free video driver that works well than a proprietary video driver that works well. Even if there were only a handful of people out there who would support it on their own, I&#8217;d at least like the option of fixing it myself or paying someone else to fit it if something went wrong. Frankly, I&#8217;m tired of having to mess with my computer every time I upgrade a kernel. If it wasn&#8217;t for the proprietary drivers, I wouldn&#8217;t get apprehensive about upgrading the kernel each time.</p>
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		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/9306/comment-page-1#comment-234597</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-234597</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Free Software started when someone (RMS) wanted to use his own hardware to the full extent possible, knowing how to do that. (At the time, it was a Xerox printer and the &quot;paper jam&quot; sensor.)

I want to use my own hardware to the full extent possible. My understanding is that only the software engineers working next door with the hardware engineers on a 200+ million logic gate GPU have the knowledges and competence to provide me the most appropriate drivers for my video card. It&#039;s not anymore a matter of enabling a paper jam switch. It&#039;s much, much more complex.

I trust the writers of my drivers that they allow me to fully exploit the hardware I BOUGHT. Is their driver proprietary? It sucks, but the alternative is worse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Free Software started when someone (RMS) wanted to use his own hardware to the full extent possible, knowing how to do that. (At the time, it was a Xerox printer and the &#8220;paper jam&#8221; sensor.)</p>
<p>I want to use my own hardware to the full extent possible. My understanding is that only the software engineers working next door with the hardware engineers on a 200+ million logic gate GPU have the knowledges and competence to provide me the most appropriate drivers for my video card. It&#8217;s not anymore a matter of enabling a paper jam switch. It&#8217;s much, much more complex.</p>
<p>I trust the writers of my drivers that they allow me to fully exploit the hardware I BOUGHT. Is their driver proprietary? It sucks, but the alternative is worse.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/9306/comment-page-1#comment-234516</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 09:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-234516</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have my doubts whether the open source drivers will ever be able to run modern 3d games, although I once said the same thing about wine and look how far it has come.
I could handle a small framerate drop if that was the only loss but the compatibility, image quality and stability would have to be at least as good as the proprietary drivers.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have my doubts whether the open source drivers will ever be able to run modern 3d games, although I once said the same thing about wine and look how far it has come.<br />
I could handle a small framerate drop if that was the only loss but the compatibility, image quality and stability would have to be at least as good as the proprietary drivers.</p>
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