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	<title>Comments on: LGP on Copy Protection</title>
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	<description>Embrace your Inner Penguin</description>
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		<title>By: ThoreauHD</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/10445/comment-page-1#comment-328684</link>
		<dc:creator>ThoreauHD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 03:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxgames.com/?p=10445#comment-328684</guid>
		<description>I think nod51 sums up everyone&#039;s observations.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think nod51 sums up everyone&#8217;s observations.</p>
<p><a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0" rel="nofollow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0</a></p>
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		<title>By: ntime60</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/10445/comment-page-1#comment-328683</link>
		<dc:creator>ntime60</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxgames.com/?p=10445#comment-328683</guid>
		<description>There wouldn&#039;t be any need for copy protection IF the product in question was of good quality. Most people don&#039;t mind funding/paying for products that are worth it as long as the price is fair. 

I&#039;ve bought SUSE when I didn&#039;t have to and actually I&#039;ve bought SUSE in versions 10 and 11.  I will most likely continue to buy SUSE. Why? because their quality is there and I want to see SUSE succeed. The same goes for gaming, I will only buy games that are on Linux. I could get them for free, but what is the point?  The idea is to promote our choices while letting the noise (crappy software) die out.

The argument for years has been &quot;The devs go where the $$$$$ are.&quot; Windows has market share so where is the $$$? Like it or not those are the facts. That is why WE (you and I) need to PAY for what we support and NOT buy Windows titles too. 

The second thing we need to do is out market M$.  A grass roots effort will work but EVERYONE needs to promote Linux, even in their sleep, we need to make people get tired of hearing it, we need to help people with issues in awk or sed or whatever for the 5 billionth time.

Only when there is a demand will the money follow.

As far as LGP and copy protection, IF the game is good I will purchase it regardless if it has copy protection or not.  BTW if it made by a human it can be broken/bypassed by a human. Copy protection is usually a minor annoyance at best.  See my first paragraph. Make a good product and people will buy it. It is simple.

I have a right to my data which includes any software I buy, I should have the ability to backup my data. If you want to pull a M$ then fine I won&#039;t buy your crap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There wouldn&#8217;t be any need for copy protection IF the product in question was of good quality. Most people don&#8217;t mind funding/paying for products that are worth it as long as the price is fair. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve bought SUSE when I didn&#8217;t have to and actually I&#8217;ve bought SUSE in versions 10 and 11.  I will most likely continue to buy SUSE. Why? because their quality is there and I want to see SUSE succeed. The same goes for gaming, I will only buy games that are on Linux. I could get them for free, but what is the point?  The idea is to promote our choices while letting the noise (crappy software) die out.</p>
<p>The argument for years has been &#8220;The devs go where the $$$$$ are.&#8221; Windows has market share so where is the $$$? Like it or not those are the facts. That is why WE (you and I) need to PAY for what we support and NOT buy Windows titles too. </p>
<p>The second thing we need to do is out market M$.  A grass roots effort will work but EVERYONE needs to promote Linux, even in their sleep, we need to make people get tired of hearing it, we need to help people with issues in awk or sed or whatever for the 5 billionth time.</p>
<p>Only when there is a demand will the money follow.</p>
<p>As far as LGP and copy protection, IF the game is good I will purchase it regardless if it has copy protection or not.  BTW if it made by a human it can be broken/bypassed by a human. Copy protection is usually a minor annoyance at best.  See my first paragraph. Make a good product and people will buy it. It is simple.</p>
<p>I have a right to my data which includes any software I buy, I should have the ability to backup my data. If you want to pull a M$ then fine I won&#8217;t buy your crap.</p>
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		<title>By: Thunor</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/10445/comment-page-1#comment-328680</link>
		<dc:creator>Thunor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 13:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxgames.com/?p=10445#comment-328680</guid>
		<description>&lt;cite&gt;The time is ripe for a company capable of producing high-quality games for the Ubuntu crowd. Sadly for LGP, I don&#039;t think that company is going to be them.&lt;/cite&gt;

Why for the Ubuntu crowd? You mean the GNU/Linux crowd. Maybe you think Mark Shuttleworth can magic something with his millions.

When you say high-quality, do you mean triple-A titles? If that is so then if LGP with all it&#039;s experience can&#039;t get triple-A titles then who will. Big game companies aren&#039;t interested in Linux because there&#039;s relatively nothing in it for them. I think you&#039;re going to have to wait until Linux has a much greater market share than it currently has before anything that qualifies as triple-A comes our way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>The time is ripe for a company capable of producing high-quality games for the Ubuntu crowd. Sadly for LGP, I don&#8217;t think that company is going to be them.</cite></p>
<p>Why for the Ubuntu crowd? You mean the GNU/Linux crowd. Maybe you think Mark Shuttleworth can magic something with his millions.</p>
<p>When you say high-quality, do you mean triple-A titles? If that is so then if LGP with all it&#8217;s experience can&#8217;t get triple-A titles then who will. Big game companies aren&#8217;t interested in Linux because there&#8217;s relatively nothing in it for them. I think you&#8217;re going to have to wait until Linux has a much greater market share than it currently has before anything that qualifies as triple-A comes our way.</p>
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		<title>By: rah</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/10445/comment-page-1#comment-328677</link>
		<dc:creator>rah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxgames.com/?p=10445#comment-328677</guid>
		<description>These copy protection schemes are all based on one assumption: users will buy games (or any software) if they can&#039;t copy them.  This assumption is false.  I quote from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;an essay&lt;/a&gt; from the GNU project:

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;Richard Stallman&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;Exaggeration&lt;/b&gt;

Owners say that they suffer &quot;harm&quot; or &quot;economic loss&quot; when users copy programs themselves. But the copying has no direct effect on the owner, and it harms no one. The owner can lose only if the person who made the copy would otherwise have paid for one from the owner.

A little thought shows that most such people would not have bought copies. Yet the owners compute their &quot;losses&quot; as if each and every one would have bought a copy. That is exaggeration--to put it kindly.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What this copy protection scheme is really about is that LGP people see that there are people copying their games without paying and it incenses them.  It makes them angry; emotional.  They feel the need to strike back against those they see as stealing from them.  LGP&#039;s copy protection is about revenge; it&#039;s about pettiness; it&#039;s an emotional outburst.  It is, basically, childish.

People who are willing to buy a game will buy it.  Those who aren&#039;t, won&#039;t.  This silly copy protection scheme will do nothing to change that.

I, for one, will no longer be buying games produced by LGP.  I suspect I won&#039;t be alone in this.  Coupled with the somewhat dubious quality of their games, I see LGP&#039;s future prospects dwindling.  The time is ripe for a company capable of producing high-quality games for the Ubuntu crowd.  Sadly for LGP, I don&#039;t think that company is going to be them.

rah</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These copy protection schemes are all based on one assumption: users will buy games (or any software) if they can&#8217;t copy them.  This assumption is false.  I quote from <a href="http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free.html" rel="nofollow">an essay</a> from the GNU project:</p>
<blockquote cite="Richard Stallman"><p><b>Exaggeration</b></p>
<p>Owners say that they suffer &#8220;harm&#8221; or &#8220;economic loss&#8221; when users copy programs themselves. But the copying has no direct effect on the owner, and it harms no one. The owner can lose only if the person who made the copy would otherwise have paid for one from the owner.</p>
<p>A little thought shows that most such people would not have bought copies. Yet the owners compute their &#8220;losses&#8221; as if each and every one would have bought a copy. That is exaggeration&#8211;to put it kindly.
</p></blockquote>
<p>What this copy protection scheme is really about is that LGP people see that there are people copying their games without paying and it incenses them.  It makes them angry; emotional.  They feel the need to strike back against those they see as stealing from them.  LGP&#8217;s copy protection is about revenge; it&#8217;s about pettiness; it&#8217;s an emotional outburst.  It is, basically, childish.</p>
<p>People who are willing to buy a game will buy it.  Those who aren&#8217;t, won&#8217;t.  This silly copy protection scheme will do nothing to change that.</p>
<p>I, for one, will no longer be buying games produced by LGP.  I suspect I won&#8217;t be alone in this.  Coupled with the somewhat dubious quality of their games, I see LGP&#8217;s future prospects dwindling.  The time is ripe for a company capable of producing high-quality games for the Ubuntu crowd.  Sadly for LGP, I don&#8217;t think that company is going to be them.</p>
<p>rah</p>
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		<title>By: nod51</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/10445/comment-page-1#comment-328676</link>
		<dc:creator>nod51</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxgames.com/?p=10445#comment-328676</guid>
		<description>Come and see the violence inherit in the system!

:-D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come and see the violence inherit in the system!</p>
<p>:-D</p>
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		<title>By: mibran</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/10445/comment-page-1#comment-328675</link>
		<dc:creator>mibran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxgames.com/?p=10445#comment-328675</guid>
		<description>I agree with Logy: If pirating is an real issue here, I understand LGP&#039;s motives to add a copy protection. I would accept any CD/DVD-based protection system.

But connecting to LGP servers every time I want to play a game isn&#039;t acceptable for me. As a gatherer of games I like to play titles being 10 or more years old. Of what use is any game that refuses to start if the publisher has gone broke? I could trash the game and the money I&#039;ve spent for it, because there are no servers left to affirm it&#039;s legality.

I&#039;ve been a fan of LGP and am willing to support any company that makes serious efforts to establish Linux as a gaming platform alternative. But this type of copy protection is unacceptable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Logy: If pirating is an real issue here, I understand LGP&#8217;s motives to add a copy protection. I would accept any CD/DVD-based protection system.</p>
<p>But connecting to LGP servers every time I want to play a game isn&#8217;t acceptable for me. As a gatherer of games I like to play titles being 10 or more years old. Of what use is any game that refuses to start if the publisher has gone broke? I could trash the game and the money I&#8217;ve spent for it, because there are no servers left to affirm it&#8217;s legality.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been a fan of LGP and am willing to support any company that makes serious efforts to establish Linux as a gaming platform alternative. But this type of copy protection is unacceptable.</p>
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		<title>By: salsadoom</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/10445/comment-page-1#comment-328674</link>
		<dc:creator>salsadoom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 20:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxgames.com/?p=10445#comment-328674</guid>
		<description>This is just plain stupid and there are no two ways about it. Copy protection never reduced piracy on windows, and it won&#039;t on linux either. How bloody stupid are those morons at LGP? 

Oh yeah -- there is a huge warez market for old, crappy, half-assed ported windows games on linux. LGP has yet to produce a single good game and now they are spending their efforts on copy protection? Give me a break. I bought all the good games that came out for linux -- and there are a few, QuakeWars, and Savage2 are recent examples of good linux games. LGP has just ancient titles. Oh. And copy protection now.

What a pack of idiots. LGP does not, and has never mattered because their games are too old and they are too blind to see it. I mean, is that what they are blaming their poor sales on? &quot;OOooh! Those pirates are stealing our profits!&quot; Which was never true on windows and isn&#039;t true on linux. Its your ass games that are the cause of the poor sales. Put it this way, even for free (ie, pirated), LGP&#039;s games are not worth having.

This will have zero effect of linux gaming because LGP is the definition of irrelevancy. 

Now, the rumors of -native- Steam on Linux on the other hand, would be a huge shake up.
--SD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is just plain stupid and there are no two ways about it. Copy protection never reduced piracy on windows, and it won&#8217;t on linux either. How bloody stupid are those morons at LGP? </p>
<p>Oh yeah &#8212; there is a huge warez market for old, crappy, half-assed ported windows games on linux. LGP has yet to produce a single good game and now they are spending their efforts on copy protection? Give me a break. I bought all the good games that came out for linux &#8212; and there are a few, QuakeWars, and Savage2 are recent examples of good linux games. LGP has just ancient titles. Oh. And copy protection now.</p>
<p>What a pack of idiots. LGP does not, and has never mattered because their games are too old and they are too blind to see it. I mean, is that what they are blaming their poor sales on? &#8220;OOooh! Those pirates are stealing our profits!&#8221; Which was never true on windows and isn&#8217;t true on linux. Its your ass games that are the cause of the poor sales. Put it this way, even for free (ie, pirated), LGP&#8217;s games are not worth having.</p>
<p>This will have zero effect of linux gaming because LGP is the definition of irrelevancy. </p>
<p>Now, the rumors of -native- Steam on Linux on the other hand, would be a huge shake up.<br />
&#8211;SD</p>
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		<title>By: nille</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/10445/comment-page-1#comment-328673</link>
		<dc:creator>nille</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxgames.com/?p=10445#comment-328673</guid>
		<description>I like LGP ports they do the best Linux ports.
I buy most of there games.
I have nothing against copy protections, but it must still be easy for the buyer.
I don&#039;t like the need of an internet connection.
And why one password for each game?
I would rather have an launcher that i log into that holds all my LGP games and only need 
one password for all my games.
But for playing games locally om my computer i can&#039;t see why i would ever need an internet connection.
 I would like an launcher that i log into and that also checks for updates and might even let me
download games that i bought.
How does this copy protection work if i sell my used game?
Do the new owner need my supplied password to play it?
Do i need to change email to the one for that user?
Can he/she change the password to something he/she can remember.
Like i said i don&#039;t have anything against LGP using copy protections but it must still be easy for
paying custumers.
So i rather see an launcher  thats need me logging in as an registered user to be able to launch the game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like LGP ports they do the best Linux ports.<br />
I buy most of there games.<br />
I have nothing against copy protections, but it must still be easy for the buyer.<br />
I don&#8217;t like the need of an internet connection.<br />
And why one password for each game?<br />
I would rather have an launcher that i log into that holds all my LGP games and only need<br />
one password for all my games.<br />
But for playing games locally om my computer i can&#8217;t see why i would ever need an internet connection.<br />
 I would like an launcher that i log into and that also checks for updates and might even let me<br />
download games that i bought.<br />
How does this copy protection work if i sell my used game?<br />
Do the new owner need my supplied password to play it?<br />
Do i need to change email to the one for that user?<br />
Can he/she change the password to something he/she can remember.<br />
Like i said i don&#8217;t have anything against LGP using copy protections but it must still be easy for<br />
paying custumers.<br />
So i rather see an launcher  thats need me logging in as an registered user to be able to launch the game.</p>
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		<title>By: Conzar</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/10445/comment-page-1#comment-328672</link>
		<dc:creator>Conzar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxgames.com/?p=10445#comment-328672</guid>
		<description>If nobody wants to play them, then why are they pirated so much?

Wanting to play something does not equate to wanting to pay for something.  

Have you done a survey of the people that downloaded/pirated the game that really enjoyed it and felt the need to buy it.  Or are most of those people downloading it just to see how crappy/old/and out dated the game is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If nobody wants to play them, then why are they pirated so much?</p>
<p>Wanting to play something does not equate to wanting to pay for something.  </p>
<p>Have you done a survey of the people that downloaded/pirated the game that really enjoyed it and felt the need to buy it.  Or are most of those people downloading it just to see how crappy/old/and out dated the game is.</p>
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		<title>By: Thunor</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/10445/comment-page-1#comment-328671</link>
		<dc:creator>Thunor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxgames.com/?p=10445#comment-328671</guid>
		<description>You know all it takes is one cracked copy of a protected game to appear on a file sharing network and the problem reappears.

This isn&#039;t going to stop piracy at all, it&#039;s just going to annoy legitimate customers.

If you want to  dissuade paying customers from sharing their purchased games then you could simply require the customer to unlock their purchase using a unique product key (offline) that is tied to them only i.e. their name and address constitutes part of the key. The customer could be required to reenter this key when applying updates or requesting support. You won&#039;t be seeing any of those purchases being shared real soon, but it won&#039;t stop crackers from removing the protection.

I think you&#039;re [LGP] going to have to do a number of things such as that stated above and being the first to seed networks with special unprotected versions that are sabotaged in various ways, and then continuing to flood networks with differing sabotaged versions so that cracked versions get lost in the crowd. Additionally make gamers aware that pirating Linux Games is damaging the adoption of Linux and artificially bolstering and prolonging the life of &quot;other&quot; evil OSs.

Subterfuge is your friend. You need a cunning plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know all it takes is one cracked copy of a protected game to appear on a file sharing network and the problem reappears.</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t going to stop piracy at all, it&#8217;s just going to annoy legitimate customers.</p>
<p>If you want to  dissuade paying customers from sharing their purchased games then you could simply require the customer to unlock their purchase using a unique product key (offline) that is tied to them only i.e. their name and address constitutes part of the key. The customer could be required to reenter this key when applying updates or requesting support. You won&#8217;t be seeing any of those purchases being shared real soon, but it won&#8217;t stop crackers from removing the protection.</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re [LGP] going to have to do a number of things such as that stated above and being the first to seed networks with special unprotected versions that are sabotaged in various ways, and then continuing to flood networks with differing sabotaged versions so that cracked versions get lost in the crowd. Additionally make gamers aware that pirating Linux Games is damaging the adoption of Linux and artificially bolstering and prolonging the life of &#8220;other&#8221; evil OSs.</p>
<p>Subterfuge is your friend. You need a cunning plan.</p>
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